About
Ground Rules
- One voice at a time - If you talk over people we will give you a warning if it happens repeatedly you will be moved to the audience
- No Shilling zone - Don’t sell us but feel free to tell us your story
- Keep it in the middle- We can attach issues and topics but attacking people won’t be tolerated
- Step up step back - If your talking a lot please step back and leave space for other voices if you are being quiet please step up and talk if your on stage (please don’t sit on stage silently we need your voice)
- Feel free to share the room if it’s valuable
Notes
- Aces Before Spaces™️
- Sharing our day publicly
- Music in the background
- Start of meeting 🎉
- Please request up if you want to speak. 👍
- James: going through Ground Rules™️ ✊
- James: To give a little background -- a lot of what we delved into last time -- let's add more. What should be more important: the tech or the art?
- Pat: the art is more important. Reason: the technology -- we're at a space where the technology will continue to evolve. That's inevitable. We're seeing a bunch of success in the web3 space. We're seeing sound.xyz doing their thing with seasonal drops. We're seeing people getting onboarded to Catalog (shout-out to Jamee Cornelia!). There's a bunch of stuff that's going on in the space where the technology is advancing. In our group chat that we have, Black Dave was talking about the importance of party bids. Anyone that participates in party bids can create their own governance coin. We've gotten to a point where in Zora, you can actually mint it and anyone with governance token can make the cost of your mint whatever your governance token you have in your party bid. People who built this last thing, can do this new thing. The technology is going to continue to advance. That's inevitable. As far as artists are concerned, we should focus on two things, which would be the art, but also, the marketing of our art. What does roll out look like for web3? When we had this last conversation, art should be presented with excellence. If that means artist development with professionals, or getting piano lessons, whatever that looks like! Collaborating has helped developed me last few years. Being in spaces with artists I look up to. People who keep it real with me and not just be BobbleHeads™️ -- they just nod. I don't want them around. Let's make it better. My thing is, I want my art to be presented with excellence. I am not afraid of critique and make sure to do this extremely well. South Paw Swade and James are in that, and I send music to South Paw often. So, I think that's important when actually wanting to create great art. Making it the best. You want it to be impactful and the more excellent it is, the more impactful. Those are my 2 cents!
- James: I see some new faces in the crowd. If this conversation is going over your head, interrupt and ask questions. The point of this is not to hear ourselves speak, but we don't want that to be the vibe. If you feel like we're talking about something, let's help
- Almond: https://podcastnotes.org/crypto/bankless/5-mental-models-for-web3-chris-dixon-on-the-bankless-podcast-with-ryan-sean-adams-and-david-hoffman/
- Pat: I appreciate that aspect of it! Welcome everyone that's here with us. To reset the room, we are the web3 Black Notes -- is it the tech or the art?
- James re-asks the question: What should be more important -- the tech or the art?
- celia inside: I am going to go with Almond on this one. For this particular convo, the tech is first in my mind anyway for someone who is looking for the most strategic way to enter the space right now. There is so much changing right now, daily, in the music world, and I need to have a full understanding of it on what I'm getting into, and asking others to get involved. That way, I'm very tuned to the tech side of it and trying to learn a little bit every day. There's this mad rush it seems, on this collectors wanting to collect, but I'm looking for the right moment where my art and the web3 world will cross in a natural way in a way that I'm ready for too. I'm doing my thing on the art side of it and going to get ready for that opportune moment. "celia inside" -- song by The Cardigans, which is by a band I really like
- Pat: for gents on stage, I see your hands going up -- we have this thing for the women coming into the space, called the Uno Skip Card.
- Iman: I'm going to say the art. I'm new to the tech side of things. I'm learning everything that I can about the tech, but the tech does not move without the art. Tech is made to make the art move. The art can move without the tech. You get what I'm saying tho? You make the tech for the art, and you push the art forward. That's what we have to continue to prioritize. Everyone should focus on what they believe is the most important thing -- for tech, tech, and for art, art. It's not about being all the same person. That's a cult. But coming together and doing what is best for what's best at -- you have both, or business and other areas, and we put that all in the pot. There's no right answer, but my answer is the art as that is what I'm most familiar with.
- Pat: I'm on the art -- I agree with you wholeheartedly.
- YahZarah.ETH: After being in the music space for over 20 years, they understand becoming a patron of the art. I am offering them utility and relationship. Two things that may not happen again. Getting to hug me and spending time with me, may not happen again. NFTs opens have another way to have relationships. Tech is driven by what we create. To me, it is the art and tech moving hand-in-hand, but most importantly the art.
- dav: Shout out for having this room! I'm always trying to nerd out on this. I love this kind of question. Love the UNO SKIP CARD RULE, and sometimes it's hard to make space for the ladies sometimes. Appreciate you all for keeping track.
- For me, art comes first. But there is art in the tech. If we can use the tech in artful ways, like other artists, there's ways we can tell stories -- I'm a musician, so as a producer, so for me, how do I make tech that deepens concept of the song? I have a song that I am putting out that is called 99 cents and it is about value. Every time it gets traded, the song degrades like something would over time. Having that, tech component, I could not have done that on Spotify or on a vinyl. We have to see what the potential of the medium is -- talking like coders, or learning solidity. I've been learning how to make that happen, and it's been hard and weird and strange and exciting, but this is the frontier and we get to explore that. As much fun as it is in the room, we chase down some cool stuff -- we get to do that on tech side and concept side and make our own crazy stuff that can further the medium and make the experience as an owner, and as a listener, something that's more desirable to have. We're making things that are art pieces, but if people don't want to own them, or have it on Spotify playlist than wallet, that's kind of an issue - so what do we want to do to make this more valuable?
- Kizzy: gm everyone! I see follows, will follow back. I agree with dav -- embracing the tech, can be artful. I have seen when the internet became user-friendly, some artists took to it while others did not embrace it. To answer the question, the art is more important to me, but the tech is what makes things move. There's nothing new under the sun, except for tech. We've been talking about love and war and sex since beginning of time. But now, with new things -- tech, built the neighborhoods. Twitter - 10 11 years ago, it was all tech and IT bros. It was not the best place, but artists made it cool to me. It would be all the same derivative shit if it wasn't for artists ... someone has been supporting me as a fan of the art, but he's been an angel investor and didn't know anything about the tech, but had some crypto and one NFT. And he wanted to support me in that way. Hey, this is a learning curve, but I will reward you to support me on web3. You have to climb this huge learning curve by design -- there's the weirdness behind it, but it's a beautiful technology, which has a steep learning curve, and if you come to support me, I will make this so much better for you. That's the beauty of the tech and the smart contract. I'm a big BandCamp and made racks off that, and you can do cool things with experiential things and you get all these things, with my drops on the blockchain, because of pandemic, I'm going to send you very intentional merch -- old and new. This blockchain is so new and daunting for so many reasons, but giving people tangible things -- that's something.
- Pat: what's really dope and what I'm excited for -- this is not a slight to anyone at all. I want to preface that, but anyone that knows about BandCamp, making items, t-shirts, or merch -- you can couple T-shirts, casette tapes, and literally anything with the music. Someone can buy the whole package, so I want to see what other people do in this space. I'm excited about that. Thank you so much for that. [Reset the room]
- DANIEL: I appreciate you hosting the space. dav stole everything I wanted to say. As an artist, we prioritize the art. But there's cool ways to integrate the tech in what we do to support our artistic messages. Whether metaphorical or start the beginning of that -- the tech is there. But it's important to make sure that it makes sense along with the art.
- NOYZ: [... Almond got rugged, missed this input]
- Pat: I can appreciate that aspect for sure. Did anyone want to reply that's been said recently?
- YahZarah.ETH: Thanks for being so gracious [Pat]. When I look at this tech situation, there are some people who are in tech that wouldn't have looked for me in web2. To bring myself to the tech, brought them to me, that web3 is an opportunity to reach out that would have never found us and attached to us not because of the music but because of our stories. This is an environment built on symbiosis. We are literally helping each other [...]
- Doze: I have a question to ask! No shade in asking. Does there have to be a winner? That's a divisive way to look at it. Living life is art, in some people's opinions. So what is art and what isn't? I'm getting into semantics, but if we approach -- in web3, we have community and include each other and love the skip cards for women for sure, but at the same time, what's more important, are we not putting that divisiveness in the whole space of tech versus art? Just to think about it -- talking as artists, but curious what you all thought about that in general.
- James: it's my question. I see how it -- when I look at space, what is the driving force that makes something successful? Is it because of the art or what the tech can do? I dug into this -- what would give it a more sustainable success? If art is cool, but no tech, what would that look like? I'm not claiming one side over the other. But some people will think art is most important part, but not about the tech -- but I want to the challenge that thought. You should probably look at both sides: with art or with tech. Look into more -- it means something.
- Doze: for project success -- it's middle ground answer. Yin and yang, some of each. Someone that codes and art, coding can be art too! Appreciate you letting me ask this question and extending grace.
- Pat: Of course, you are welcome! It's a question to pull insight and answers out of people too. Whichever you want to be more important, one or the other, you will do both -- but before you came in, he asked the question -- "well, do I have to choose one?" the reason: in the last room, we were talking about -- "which one? which one is more important?" I said both need to be done in excellence. They need to be done in an excellent capacity. If you need that help, to do it best as can, you need a team. You need someone that can help you utilize this as best as possible. I believe in creative socialid using the art to help others as well. Question was posed to just get good insight, and it's not meant to pit each other --
- James: I was waiting for someone to ask the question!
- Doze: It makes sense. There doesn't have to be a winner! If you don't want to do the research, you need a team to help you. It has to be excellent all around, esp in the art world!
- Pat: we talked about that last time. Top-Tier Mid™️ [Reset the room / share if you like it!]
- Kizzy: Doze came in passionate with the question, and James was elegant with the answer. Sparked a thought: I majored in chemistry and became an artist. One of the most beautiful classes was organic chemistry. But in orgo, it is drawing out chemical formulas. Some of these formulas look like art. You can shed a tier if you a super nerd. There is an intersection there. I remember having an ex-manager that would be made fun of -- she would emphasize the business of art. The art of business! People would say "get out of here!" but there's intersection there when you take and break some of the numbers, like Doze saying in the code, absolutely, the tech is beautiful in and of itself.
- James: in high school, our teacher wanted us to have a creative way to remember -- I made a yearbook of chemicals.
- Almond: KELSEY BROOKES
- KING ZODEYAK: Introduce myself, my name is Mike! Vibes all around. It was meant for me, came here at the right time. I want to point out Doze, definitely peep what you saying -- I feel like tech is art to some people and I'm on that as well, I also feel as an artist, some artists don't know anything but art. They just don't know how to arrange the tech, so it's hand-in-hand for-real. I love my homies who are tech gurus, but artists should be more in tune with reaching out. I want to introduce myself and speaking on these spaces because I don't, and that can be nervewrecking, but I really feel the vibes here. I am really trying. I am here to learn and with people's stories. I'm trying to get into the metaverse. Please hit my DMs if anyone wants to help me with it, let me know!
- James: I want to acknowledge and affirm you. I will DM you after this!
- Pat: I was about to say the same. I heard others who don't speak in physical spaces, and someone was nervous in that space -- so, I commend you for that, for sharing.
- South Paw Swade: s/o to ZODEYAK and people expanding borrders! When we get to the question, I agreed with so much stuff so I don't want to rehash all that -- but we're in a place where, we've seen over time, where art and tech have helped proliferate each other. When you look at web3 space initially, alot of it wasn't quite good initially, but you get more people in the space and it starts to diversify. With the internet, it helped proliferate music, but art helped internet too! Artists on the radio and using the limits of radio to create other things. It's a dance between lovers. It's a dance between lovers. There's no choice but for the two to interact in a way that advances both. So, when we get to the question of what's more important, I agreed with so much that's sad, but the question doesn't matter. They're going to interact and mature each other.
- Pat: the dance between the art and the tech -- that's a bar! Swade is a long time friend of mine, super dope artist and producer. If you're not familiar, check him out! For people in the room, if you see something going on in their profile and checking them out, definitely follow them. Follow up with them and hit them up. We want to make this a space with community, and have this round table discussion. We appreciate everyone who shared so far.
- totemohen.eth: Thank you for letting me be a part of this space. Thank you to Doze and wrote out a note because talking in spaces, I get jumbled up quickly. I was ready to say what Doze shared, so I appreciate you Doze if you're still up in the room. I thought about the words -- I considered how we might be able to zoom out further, as far as we can go, and maybe, in an effort to articulate differently, find ways to celebrate the ambiguity of it all, and celebrate that neither tech nor art nor medium has to exist within a binary fashion or sort of paradigms, and be a bit amorphous -- we can explore things in that alternative shift. I say that from a position of being a Black queer parent and considering ambiguities in these spaces. I appreciate you listening to me. My note echoes what DOZE said -- adding another example to consider: "8-bit music -- artists who create soundscapes using physical tech or other artwork might be a good example of how they blend mediums together. It happens everywhere. If we remove the lens and see the blend, there's a cool colorful picture."
- James: do not apologize for the kid G!
- Swade: you woulda heard mine if she wasn't knocked out.
- James: thinking about this -- how, art, can break the tech for new uses. I think about TR808 as a commercial failure, but creators made a new whole art out of it. Or peek a boo system -- how will artists, disrupt the tech? I am interested to see how we use it improperly to make new things that didn't exist prior.
- Hologram: what will be the new MPC?
- Pat: I was thinking about Arpeggi Labs -- they might be the gateway.
- Mishriff: I remember in 2011, that the new museum in New York was pairing technologists and artists and some exercise to give them 24 hours to work together and present something in an auditory way -- really cool topic to be thinking about.
- Jayden: What's up James and Pat? How's your day going? I'm driving home right now -- I saw the question and it's come up in a lot of spaces, but I think it is so important. There is no right answer -- what would make projects last 3-5 years down the line? This entire question brings me to mintsongs and how everyday, there's 100s of people dropping songs on mintsongs and it's just growing more and more. But now, if we say this space is going to be here for long, and I believe it will, but how will these things of releasing 33 or 55 editions, how will they have longevity down the line? Will tech be the one to hold them up?
- dav: the noise floor is really high right now. it's really easy to make a song, so when we consider mintsongs, that's one of the downsides of a free blockchain -- there's not a bouncer at the door. It helps on the ETH side to have the fees so you are more selective of what you want on there. Ultimately, 100 years from now, we will have music on some chain, and only some percentage will be music that people will enjoy and resonate with long-term. That's just a small percentage out there. We hope we can make that stuff.
- blackdave: I can do both on input.
- Recently, I was in a space that this idea -- that 10K music NFTs -- with artists and the tech and Frank [] and there's a time for both and place for both. Talking with managers and artists camps which are much more popular generally, but referencing the level of Justin Bieber's manager -- when you look at a lot of the NFTs, like artists in deals, they're relying on star power to get through. But if you look at some of the technology that NFTs offer, which of course, there are a lot of web2 alternatives here -- it can bear a lot of fruit. In Bieber scenario, he doesn't have to release an NFT that's attached to music, but an NFT attached to Q\&A or interview or similar. Art isn't even included in that convo. The thing you receive can be different. It is an experience! However, if all we want is for someone to experience music, we don't need NFTs for that. I use that as my constant example. Tech matters more than people want it to, and what we are doing as artists is fighting that. That's fine, and some artists don't have to play the popularity game. If Frank Ocean dropped something, that's one thing -- but there will be people that don't play the game -- I think that it's important that we recognize where we actually exist. We recognize floor art or fans or smartness -- this allows us to overindex in that direction. I know that my music isn't interesting to a lot of people because it's about anime. But I have other things to overindex on like thought leadership. If people recognize where we are strong, we can look at it like stats for our character. For an NFT drop, if I can get a 100 on the art, and probably pass with a 60 on the tech, or whatever. We want to give 80 on some things specifically, and be useful in this game, because as you soon as you put a price on art, it becomes commerce.
- Hologram: I hopped in your DMs last night and you did reply. We are all mentally stretched. I said something really quickly, but -- it's a super great question to keep in mind, about the why is this an NFT, or why behind everything. Not shilling, but to break down what blackdave -- I don't have a 10K generative project -- but, I want something to be so different so it piques interest on fans and pique new fans. [... missed this part] You get the OG and the remix with my tokens -- ETH can be daunting. People see that first gas fee and they're like aw hell nah, it's very hard sometimes to get people over that monetary hump. I put stuff on object.com or Tezos blockchain for far less, and I have 128 tokens, which have a little bit of utility that will still send people something, and offer them the high-res version of the art for extra bonuses, but the real utility is with following the story and collecting on the ethereum blockchain. Having a 10K generative music based project, but Mike Shinoda has Zigg-project, and it is on object.com and it is 5K of a mixtape that he takes a piece out and put a, track in and take a track out. It makes it unique and 5K of these things, and it's really interesting [...]
- Pat: got back in!
- Almond: Check out BeatFoundryNFT!
- James: I may sound boomer-ish, but generative art projects are cool — but do we want computers to decide how music is made? Or do I want a derivative of that? I don’t know if we want to trust computers to do that. I think music is great!
- James: I forget what song is great, but Mike did 200 takes, and using the 2nd one. But in theory, there could be a flaw, but nothing is perfect.
- Suede: some of that — synthesizers were semi-tones off — there are imperfections even if the song is perfect
- dav: micro-timing — but if you put that on the grid, it won’t sound human anymore.
- blackdave: if I put an adjustment algorithmically, like every hi-hat is off by some kinda milliseconds, you can create humanized things with mechanical methods, and this is another — the algorithm can make great songs, because the algorithm has great songs to study.
- Swade: for me, something that makes music interesting is not just sound, but the story of it, and the story of people who make it. Same things can be true, of the algorithm that someone programmed! I don’t know, it’s just, I think there’s human element.
- dav: if a machine can make a compelling song and make it for a bit, there might be some level where it can outthink a human, but that’s another AI singularity conversation, but when things can be — like groove maps with MIDI, even the most beautiful live performance is just 1s and 0s, so you can always analyze and always use that to make the next thing.
- Pat: you can write a rap verse and choose Jay-Z’s voice and it actually does a pretty good job to make it sound like Jay-Z or Eminem, it is kinda weird, but I see what blackdave and swade is saying. When he was talking about Thriller, they were using analog synths and being semi-tone off, and this best take — I think it is really cool too, that, I don’t know if anyone else thinks this — but the way I record my music, I found this fascinating — when you sample, sampling is taking bits and pieces and orchestrating into something newer, even when you take longer sessions of the loop, in a really simple way — sampling! So I enjoy the process of recording several takes — the different ways I say things and get it all into one, so for me, I like to be hand’s on in that process. And vocal inflections and even words will like, there will be one take that I say it a word better, and that’s just — I’m torn between the two. I would lean toward keeping things human.
- Hologram: you know there have been derivatives on artists - but you might know a couple - no names — and we let em fly, but not us, but the mainstream audience in general. With that said, thank you gm everybody, this was a great conversation, and wish you all the best!
- dav: [... Almond missed this]
- TreZureEmpire: music industry was founded on someone else being able to "own" and "license" music that wasn't there. What happens with our global music history when we have traditions beyond the commercial industry of music? Globally, most cultures have cultural preserved music -- when we think of Afro-Caribbean music traditions, what happens to our legacy in this model? How do we further these sounds in this new system? As a music ethnocologist, I am wondering where are we evolving from the old model and thinking of the same way of protecting and preserved of continuum of history and level of exploitation that comes from the previous model. What do I do with them in the most, ideal way for the collective? Am I supporting, or somewhere where people start profiting from other people of sound?
- ALMOND STOPPED TAKING NOTES HERE AT 6:19 PM PST
